I think you are correct, or it’s a very small constituency. As conservatives have lost more control over the cultural zeitgeist, and not through government action, they have become more openly fascistic. They were fine with democracy when Reagan was winning 49 states and 59% of the vote. Now that they’re a minority, they’re not so hot on liberal democracy.
I don't understand how current Liberals (which are NOT traditional Liberals) call out "fascism" and "authoritarianism" on the right but ignore their own fascism and authoritarianism. It's mind numbing. You have to see your own faults first before you can remedy the faults of others.
If "progressive" means destroy the economy, destroy society, destroy democracy, destroy the family unit and destroy your ability to choose freely they are certainly progressing in that direction - which is the opposite direction "progressives" used to move towards.
Maybe that makes up for everything else. I would think Ukrainians and everyone else would be overjoyed to copy the Russian model if that were the case. Who knows, though. Maybe stats on how many people want to move to Russia and/or adopt its system of government would be telling. It would be interesting to look into.
IMO conservatives have always been leftists with very confused ideas when it comes to the subject of politics.
That's why I always disagree with those who claim Trump and MAGA corrupted the GOP. No, this has been a long time coming and sadly I think it's going to get much worse.
Federal spending is no longer a real issue for voters. It has become entirely disconnected from the lives of voters. There is nobody in the U.S.A. who sincerely connects the federal taxes they pay with government spending. Nobody knows anyone whose is unable to eat because of the tax burden, most poor people get more money in their tax refund than they pay in. Lower taxes are no longer associated with lower government spending in the minds of the people.
Congress isn't responsible for regulation in the minds of voters. The bureaucratic state is unelected and not responsive to people, it only responds to lawyers and money.
If you don't think candidates will do anything that will impact the spending or the bureaucracy, then you're left with social issues.
Could have easily written an article "The New Left ❤️ State Power And for no higher purpose than to impose its vision on the rest of us". The gas stove issue is real! The issue of forced electrification of automobiles is real!
The old left was always more comfortable with state power than the old right. But they weren't totally nuts. Now the illiberals, whose main focus is on power dynamics, have taken over the left. Why is there any surprise that illiberals would gain influence on the right? Yes, they're all about power too.
I see this argument a lot. Right wing extremism is justified as a response to left wing extremism. The problem is that the examples given of left wing extremism are usually either nonspecific (“woke!”) or not really extremist (subsidizing alternative energy).
There ARE instances of left wing extremism out there. But for now, they’re mostly found in local urban governments, universities, or online ranting. Left wing extremists do not enjoy any state or national level power currently in the US. The current rise of right wing extremism in the US is NOT a reaction to left wing extremism. It’s a reaction to cultural, demographic, and economic changes. It’s a movement based in fear, fed by the outrage media industry.
"The nuts I like are OK, but the ones you like are bad". I left the culture war stuff out because there is a lot of noise. But there is plenty of signal. The one that's going to sink the USA is adopting the goal of equality of outcomes over equality of opportunity. And that's precisely what post-liberal progressives are doing by eliminating 8th grade algebra in SFO. In Evanston, IL they were planning segregated high school math classes until they got caught. The only way these policies get adopted is via the capture of the education systems by the illiberal left. They are just as nuts and dangerous as the illiberal right, even if they express their BS in a different manner.
No, the nuts on the left are imposing bad policies on school districts and city councils and universities where they have power. The nuts on the right are active at all levels of government, from banning books with gay characters and establishing religious indoctrination at the school level, to forcing women to being pregnant against their will and gerrymandering themselves super majorities at the state level, to attacking at the national level the fundamental principle of democracy that sometimes the other side wins.
We came a step away from a presidential coup and we are careening towards defaulting on our good faith and credit and we are seeing more and more right wing terrorist attacks, but you see some middle-headed school district apparatchiks as the most dire threat facing the country?
I should not have come at you as I did. I mistakenly thought I was one old guy giving another old guy shit about a bunch of anti gay drama. I really don’t have it in me to go full blazes with an angry young man. I’m just a boring old centrist who has some gay friends that I worry about and I sometimes poke a stick at bears when I usually shouldn’t. I hope you have a good life.
Yea I keep saying that the "New Right" should really be just called the "Old Left."
Anti-trade, anti-immigrant, anti-abortion, etc.
But I think the elephant in the room is that this was kind of always the case. It didn't happen by accident. Conservatives have long being statists and many of the biggest expansions of rights-violating gov policy was implemented by conservatives.
The real question not really being discussed is have conservatives ever really been on the right? I.e. supporters of individual rights, rights-protecting gov and capitalism?
Do any of them even know what those words even mean?
Maybe that makes up for everything else. Perhaps the number of people trying to move there could tell us that. I honestly don’t know the stats on how many want the Russian life. Should be quite high if those things are so important.
A lot of words to really just vent on how much you hate the way gay people are accepted in modern American society.
Take a look at the poll numbers for people under 30 gramps and weep. You’ve lost this argument. All this book banning and anti woke business nonsense is just a temporary rear guard action delaying the inevitable dumping of your anti-gay ideology into the dustbin of history.
The proof is in the pudding. Society is literally falling apart at the seams with a few threads barely holding it together, and this is all a product of Liberal ideology.
Anybody with half a brain can see what's happening. It doesn't work and pushing it harder won't make it work better. Corporate interests and media perception DOES NOT reflect what the people want. They only make you try to believe they do.
In fact, because Liberal ideology doesn't operate under objective principles but rather subjective ones, The Left is turning back on itself and eating itself alive.
I don’t know where you live, but my neighborhood and place of work isn’t falling apart. My family isn’t falling apart. Even my city isn’t falling apart even though it does have a lot of the typical American urban problems and there are some progressive policies that I think are wrong. My state isn’t falling apart even though I think the politics at the state level are pretty warped. My country isn’t falling apart even though there are too many right wingers wanting to re-elect a seditious coup plotting sexually assaulting piece of shit to be president.
So where you live, you're not being affected by a crippled economy, record inflation, broken supply chains, people unwilling to work, rising crime, broken health care services or censored media like the rest of the world? All a product of the last 3 years.
Or you're just wealthy enough to be able to choose your troubles.
Either way you sound detached from the reality most are facing and live in a reality that most dream about.
Where I live, the economy is strong, inflation is high at just under 5% but nowhere near record levels and will probably come down possibly due to a recession, there are still some supply chain and employment shortages following the lockdown but improving and manageable, crime is a problem but still well below what we saw in the 90s, health care system still has the issues it’s had for decades but certainly isn’t broken, and I haven’t personally experienced any censored media because I mainly watch streaming TV and baseball and read books.
My Astros ARE struggling, which is annoying but not the fault of either woke ideology or right wing authoritarianism.
I only use things like government documents, actuarial statistics, legal documents and the like.
But nice try at trying to deflect from the main point, being that ALL of these things were created by far Left, ultra Liberal decision making.
You must have no concept of what life is like for the MAJORITY of the population considering you're not being affected by any of these things...and that's the problem...most of these politicians have no idea either.
Is it possible that there has never been an actual constituency for the "limited government" of conservative intellectuals?
I think you are correct, or it’s a very small constituency. As conservatives have lost more control over the cultural zeitgeist, and not through government action, they have become more openly fascistic. They were fine with democracy when Reagan was winning 49 states and 59% of the vote. Now that they’re a minority, they’re not so hot on liberal democracy.
I don't understand how current Liberals (which are NOT traditional Liberals) call out "fascism" and "authoritarianism" on the right but ignore their own fascism and authoritarianism. It's mind numbing. You have to see your own faults first before you can remedy the faults of others.
They've abandoned the "liberal" moniker. They're "progressives" now, which is a lot more apt if you've read about early 20th Century progressives.
I happily refer to the American left as "progressive".
If "progressive" means destroy the economy, destroy society, destroy democracy, destroy the family unit and destroy your ability to choose freely they are certainly progressing in that direction - which is the opposite direction "progressives" used to move towards.
Yeah, Russia’s really in great shape.
Maybe that makes up for everything else. I would think Ukrainians and everyone else would be overjoyed to copy the Russian model if that were the case. Who knows, though. Maybe stats on how many people want to move to Russia and/or adopt its system of government would be telling. It would be interesting to look into.
Exactly. No one is talking about this.
IMO conservatives have always been leftists with very confused ideas when it comes to the subject of politics.
That's why I always disagree with those who claim Trump and MAGA corrupted the GOP. No, this has been a long time coming and sadly I think it's going to get much worse.
This isn't a Trump thing.
Federal spending is no longer a real issue for voters. It has become entirely disconnected from the lives of voters. There is nobody in the U.S.A. who sincerely connects the federal taxes they pay with government spending. Nobody knows anyone whose is unable to eat because of the tax burden, most poor people get more money in their tax refund than they pay in. Lower taxes are no longer associated with lower government spending in the minds of the people.
Congress isn't responsible for regulation in the minds of voters. The bureaucratic state is unelected and not responsive to people, it only responds to lawyers and money.
If you don't think candidates will do anything that will impact the spending or the bureaucracy, then you're left with social issues.
Could have easily written an article "The New Left ❤️ State Power And for no higher purpose than to impose its vision on the rest of us". The gas stove issue is real! The issue of forced electrification of automobiles is real!
The old left was always more comfortable with state power than the old right. But they weren't totally nuts. Now the illiberals, whose main focus is on power dynamics, have taken over the left. Why is there any surprise that illiberals would gain influence on the right? Yes, they're all about power too.
I see this argument a lot. Right wing extremism is justified as a response to left wing extremism. The problem is that the examples given of left wing extremism are usually either nonspecific (“woke!”) or not really extremist (subsidizing alternative energy).
There ARE instances of left wing extremism out there. But for now, they’re mostly found in local urban governments, universities, or online ranting. Left wing extremists do not enjoy any state or national level power currently in the US. The current rise of right wing extremism in the US is NOT a reaction to left wing extremism. It’s a reaction to cultural, demographic, and economic changes. It’s a movement based in fear, fed by the outrage media industry.
"The nuts I like are OK, but the ones you like are bad". I left the culture war stuff out because there is a lot of noise. But there is plenty of signal. The one that's going to sink the USA is adopting the goal of equality of outcomes over equality of opportunity. And that's precisely what post-liberal progressives are doing by eliminating 8th grade algebra in SFO. In Evanston, IL they were planning segregated high school math classes until they got caught. The only way these policies get adopted is via the capture of the education systems by the illiberal left. They are just as nuts and dangerous as the illiberal right, even if they express their BS in a different manner.
No, the nuts on the left are imposing bad policies on school districts and city councils and universities where they have power. The nuts on the right are active at all levels of government, from banning books with gay characters and establishing religious indoctrination at the school level, to forcing women to being pregnant against their will and gerrymandering themselves super majorities at the state level, to attacking at the national level the fundamental principle of democracy that sometimes the other side wins.
We came a step away from a presidential coup and we are careening towards defaulting on our good faith and credit and we are seeing more and more right wing terrorist attacks, but you see some middle-headed school district apparatchiks as the most dire threat facing the country?
I should not have come at you as I did. I mistakenly thought I was one old guy giving another old guy shit about a bunch of anti gay drama. I really don’t have it in me to go full blazes with an angry young man. I’m just a boring old centrist who has some gay friends that I worry about and I sometimes poke a stick at bears when I usually shouldn’t. I hope you have a good life.
Right-wing collectivism is often about bigotry and racism as well
"The New Right ❤️ State Power"
Yea I keep saying that the "New Right" should really be just called the "Old Left."
Anti-trade, anti-immigrant, anti-abortion, etc.
But I think the elephant in the room is that this was kind of always the case. It didn't happen by accident. Conservatives have long being statists and many of the biggest expansions of rights-violating gov policy was implemented by conservatives.
The real question not really being discussed is have conservatives ever really been on the right? I.e. supporters of individual rights, rights-protecting gov and capitalism?
Do any of them even know what those words even mean?
I don't think Trump and MAGA are an accident.
Exactly, up to them. It will be interesting to see what they do.
Maybe there should be Hungexit, or whatever it would be called.
Maybe that makes up for everything else. Perhaps the number of people trying to move there could tell us that. I honestly don’t know the stats on how many want the Russian life. Should be quite high if those things are so important.
A lot of words to really just vent on how much you hate the way gay people are accepted in modern American society.
Take a look at the poll numbers for people under 30 gramps and weep. You’ve lost this argument. All this book banning and anti woke business nonsense is just a temporary rear guard action delaying the inevitable dumping of your anti-gay ideology into the dustbin of history.
I think you missed his point entirely.
The proof is in the pudding. Society is literally falling apart at the seams with a few threads barely holding it together, and this is all a product of Liberal ideology.
Anybody with half a brain can see what's happening. It doesn't work and pushing it harder won't make it work better. Corporate interests and media perception DOES NOT reflect what the people want. They only make you try to believe they do.
In fact, because Liberal ideology doesn't operate under objective principles but rather subjective ones, The Left is turning back on itself and eating itself alive.
No, I think I got his point pretty clearly.
I don’t know where you live, but my neighborhood and place of work isn’t falling apart. My family isn’t falling apart. Even my city isn’t falling apart even though it does have a lot of the typical American urban problems and there are some progressive policies that I think are wrong. My state isn’t falling apart even though I think the politics at the state level are pretty warped. My country isn’t falling apart even though there are too many right wingers wanting to re-elect a seditious coup plotting sexually assaulting piece of shit to be president.
I’m sorry where you live apparently sucks so bad.
So where you live, you're not being affected by a crippled economy, record inflation, broken supply chains, people unwilling to work, rising crime, broken health care services or censored media like the rest of the world? All a product of the last 3 years.
Or you're just wealthy enough to be able to choose your troubles.
Either way you sound detached from the reality most are facing and live in a reality that most dream about.
Where I live, the economy is strong, inflation is high at just under 5% but nowhere near record levels and will probably come down possibly due to a recession, there are still some supply chain and employment shortages following the lockdown but improving and manageable, crime is a problem but still well below what we saw in the 90s, health care system still has the issues it’s had for decades but certainly isn’t broken, and I haven’t personally experienced any censored media because I mainly watch streaming TV and baseball and read books.
My Astros ARE struggling, which is annoying but not the fault of either woke ideology or right wing authoritarianism.
And why did we have the following things?
Inflation?
Supply chain issues?
Employment shortages?
Higher crime?
You'll have to trust me on the censored media then unless you want me to prove it to you.
Answer? I'll give you a clue: Every single one was caused by the Left, woke ideology and fascist authoritarian measures.
I’m sure you have lots of forwarded emails and YouTube videos to back all that up.
Oh, no.
I only use things like government documents, actuarial statistics, legal documents and the like.
But nice try at trying to deflect from the main point, being that ALL of these things were created by far Left, ultra Liberal decision making.
You must have no concept of what life is like for the MAJORITY of the population considering you're not being affected by any of these things...and that's the problem...most of these politicians have no idea either.
Stock response from an NPC
Wow, even after five years or more, that insult still stings! Good job, 4-chan!
Well, that’s a different kind of sad.
This right to free speech that you have been denied, aren’t you exercising it right now?
I appreciate your candor.
This whole comment can replace just a couple words and be a full on Hitler quote