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hw's avatar

I appreciate the thoughtful analysis. I would note 2 observations: 1) Trump had twice been prosecuted (albeit in civil matters) by the NY AG, who forced a closure of Trump University and Trump Foundation, with attendant fines. There was no societal uproar, and 2) Alex Jones is a multimillionaire, with a rabid fan base (as well as a pro-insurrection instigator). His trial has not caused his base to riot in the streets.

It's not that I underestimate the Maga reaction, but I think we can overstate its power, as well. As Trump's venality and criminality continue to be revealed, his support will continue to erode around the margins. There will be violence, but a mob of hundreds is far different than a mob of thousands.

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carolm62's avatar

In my state of Utah Trump has lost 20% of his supporters. Or so say the polls.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

... run by Democrats.

Absolutely hilarious!

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gkamburoff's avatar

Your nonsensical retorts betray your Russian heritage and need for Prigozhin.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Comrade, this is an English speaking forum. Keep your Russian for your fellow Russians.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

I'm in Utah, too. What do you suppose come next senatorial challenge in Utah that places Romney, who seems to do little more than channeling the late, unlamented serial backstabber John McCain?

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carolm62's avatar

The hate for Romney in Utah is mostly confined to loud and odious MAGAs, and even they just parrot each other. Their antipathy stems from one thing: Romney does not bow before Trump. That is all. That is how these folks define and measure everything. Does it support Trump…? If not, then it is leftist socialist communist. It’s like when someone is standing on the North Pole and every direction they face is South. MAGAs are that polarized.

I’ve lost count the number of times that I, a free-market capitalist, have been called a leftist socialist communist by MAGAS. I’m apparently a capitalist socialist…. They’re not the sharpest tools in the shed.

But anyway, remember that Trump only won in Utah in 2016 with a plurality. The majority of the state voted against him, including me. As for Romney, he is well liked by Dems, Independents, and normal, non-conspirikook Republicans. Just as Democrats have opted not to run a candidate against Evan McMullin in a combined effort to oust Mike Lee, they may well do the same when Romney comes up for re-election. I guess we’ll see.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

"The hate for Romney in Utah is mostly confined to loud and odious MAGAs"

LMAO! Trump carried Utah over Biden by a 20.5% margin. Only two counties in the state gave Biden a majority, Salt Lake, long a urban center, being the only one of note.

So, it would appear that Utah is, to use the vile Hillary's characterisation of anyone she didn't like "a basket of deplorables" by all measures.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-elections/utah-president-results

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Aug 9, 2022
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carolm62's avatar

I recommend taking a remedial reading comprehension course at a community college near you. My post clearly stated 2016. It is tragically true that Trump did better in 2020 — but as I pointed out — the Jan 6th hearings have resulted in 20% decline in support. It is likely that the newbie supporters in 2020, didn’t support him in 2016, are largely the same folks who have withdrawn their support and run for the hills. Some people have a red line that they won’t cross. It’s unfortunate that you’re not one of them, but yeah.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

"I recommend taking a remedial reading comprehension course at a community college near you."

I am neither going to trade insults with you nor get into a pissing contest with you over who is the better educated.

I will point out, however, that even if the poll you allege but don't gift us with who did it is correct and Trump indeed has lost 20% of his supporters as result of 1/6, lets look at the 2020 vote totals in the link I attached.

Let's go with your poll, and assume that the election is today, okay?

Trump got 58.1% of the vote. Saying that 20% don't support him now, says that he has 80% who remain with him. That would leave him with 46.48% of the vote.

In the unlikely event that the 20% who left him, 11.62% of his voters, had a "road to Damascus" epiphany and all became Biden fans, Biden would have his original 37.6% of the Utah electorate plus Trump's leaving 11.2% for a total of 49.22% of today's vote.

That gives him a margin of a 2.74% lead over Trump in that scenario.

If, for example, that 11.2% simply stayed home, a more likely scenario, using 2020 numbers, Trump would still have 46.48% of the 2020 vote while Biden, assuming that he held on to what he had in 2020 would still be stuck at 37.6%. That still gives Trump a shade under a 9% lead. By most definitions, that is still considered a landslide.

Normalising that and ignoring the write-ins for a today's vote, we find Trump with 48.6% against Biden's 39.3%.

I'm using a Trump vs Biden match-up. Assuming that Trump is the GOP candidate in 2024 and the Dems come up with someone else, who would you suggest as someone who could beat him? :-)

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gkamburoff's avatar

McCain was 10 times the man of any other Republican.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

McCain was a second generation scumbag.

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gkamburoff's avatar

Did you go to war for us?

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

Have you ever read a biography of John McCain? Not all military men are saints and many, even effective ones, are often real scumbags. McCain falls into the second category, scumbags, not effective, to clarify.

Ask yourself, as the son and grandson of admirals why he never managed to become a flag officer, but opted for politics instead.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

The only thing being revealed is the malicious Gestapo tactics Democrats are willing to employ to assail their political allies.

Enjoy your shellacking this November; your coming decades out of power; and President Trump's second term - you earned them!

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carolm62's avatar

I’m not a Democrat. Out there somewhere might be a Trump supporter capable of comprehending that not all people who oppose Trump are Democrats. But I have yet to meet one. Enjoy being a minion, I guess….

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

"...not all people who oppose Trump are Democrats"

Indeed, the GOP establishment hates the people Trump represents even more than Democrats. The people who voted for Trump wanted someone who would do what he promised. Establishment Republicans treated their supporters about the same way that Democrats still treat their Black and Hispanic supporters. The Hispanics are getting wise to that game, as we are seeing more and more these days.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Absolutely correct. Time to treat the Bolsheviks as Bolsheviks deserve...

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carolm62's avatar

Binary thinkers are so tedious. Just FYI, nearly half of registered voters are Independents or Third Partiers.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

You really are into insults, aren't you?

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Yes, you are tedious. Perhaps you would be happier posting on RT?

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

No, we all know about Never Trumpers. Sadly, they are even worse than Democrats.

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carolm62's avatar

It’s pretty amusing to see Trumpsters freak out about a search warrant being served on the Chosen One, who literally ran his presidential campaign on imprisoning a political opponent. And all his minions chanted in unison “Lock her up, lock her up!”

Fade out, fade in and now the minions all want the FBI dissolved — except who then would investigate Hunter Biden…? Seems you all have tied yourself in knots.

This is what happens when you have no principles. Was it really worth throwing them all away for a loser like Trump…?

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Freak out? No, that's what this FBI raid is evidence of is happening among the DNC. They are absolutely terrified Trump will run again. They are right to be - he will run, he will win, and the DNC will become a historical footnote.

Hillary confessed on global television to over 600 counts of felony Espionage, Natasha. That's a big deal, worth up to 6,000 years in prison. Despite Comey's song and dance rationalizing why he would did prosecute her, that particular statute makes no provision at all for exceptions if the perp "did not intend to break the law." It was pure fiction to give him cover for letting her off. The deed is the act, meaning Hillary is merely an unconvicted felon. See: 18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

I've wanted the FBI and DoJ "dissolved" for over 50 years - they cannot be fixed, because they are broken by design and were always bound to become our very own Gestapo. The entire edifice needs to be abolished in its current form. Reconstitute the whole thing using a Federated model, with term limited (no "careers" in the FBI) appointees by each State hosted in their own States (no offices in DC whatsoever); all "leaders" (if indeed any are truly needed) elected from within each year; all sharing the same network of resources; and all authorized to investigate, apprehend, and prosecute their own brethren if they violate the law as our FBI has done regarding Candidate/President/Citizen Trump.

Having obviously no principles yourself you are in no way qualified to judge those of others. You and your entire criminal cabal belong in a deep, dark dungeon for eternity.

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carolm62's avatar

Oh for the love of our Reptilian Illuminati Overlords….

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Sara Melzer's avatar

Great piece. Lucid, insightful and compelling. Let’s hope this view prevails

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Lzy's avatar

Great. Now do Hillary or the Biden crime family and compare the treatment. The Left has turned us into a Banana Republic

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gkamburoff's avatar

Biden just got the most important bills passed in probably 50 years.

all the hateful conservatives can do is whine.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

And what did Democrats do during the Trump administration? Most whined, those that weren't throwing years long tantrums and proclaiming themselves "the resistance"?

"hateful conservatives"

Talk about hateful? How about stopping lunch money for poor kids at schools that don't want boys pretending to be girls in girls' toilets and locker rooms? That's not "hateful"?

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gkamburoff's avatar

Is that a big problem where you live?

Not here.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

More and more here. Our GOP governor turned out to be a big transexual rights promoter. It will be interesting to see if he is returned to office. Mind, Utah is an odd place. Anybody could have found out what his position with a simple web search well before he was elected. Mind, all that happened before I permanently moved here from California.

He has also turned out to be anti-Charter Schools, apparently because his wife is a special ed teacher. Said he'll consider supporting Charter Schools when public school teacher starting salaries are $65K. Very odd man.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

The sad thing is that totalitarians are always very obvious. Any time anyone proposes "central control" of anything, it is almost invariably (with the notable exception of a military, and even there we have competing services) a VERY bad idea.

Schools are the perfect example. Who promoted a government school system? Marx. The answer? Well, having all childern have access to an education is definitely promoting the General Welfare because otherwise they become burdens on society, so I'm ok with collecting taxes and using them for the education of children. However, that should be about the extent of government involvement. Mandate universal school vouchers payable to whoever teaches the child, payment withheld until the child demonstrates competency in the subject. Create a national system (it would have to have SEVERE, perhaps capital punishment consequences, for anyone aiding, abetting, failing to vet, etc. the enrollment of teachers, parents, kids under false pretenses such as illegal aliens). Works similar to Uber - matching children to teachers and classes. Children may be enrolled for an entire subject (i.e. "Algebra I"); topic (e.g. "Polynomial Expressions); or even just a single class if it makes sense. Webcams in every classroom accessible by verified parents of children in THAT CLASS allowing parents to monitor / record. Payment / grades are by monitored standardized testing. Teachers grade children on other areas such as socialization, motivation, etc. Parents may rate teachers; teachers may rate parents. Good teachers will get rich; bad teachers will starve and find something else to do.

Real solutions are simple. Totalitarians despise real solutions.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

"Who promoted a government school system? Marx"

He undoubtedly did, but in the US, the Prussian Education System, developed in the late 18th and early 19 century in Prussia under Fredrich the Great, was promoted most effectively by Horace Mann in Massachusetts.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Yes, where you live in Kalifornistan the Comrades all live together in collective paradise - minding the needles and feces where they walk, of course, and always vigilant to a mugging.

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gkamburoff's avatar

Rumpy and Pootie are losing badly.

Did you notice?

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Only from your padded room do you "notice" things that aren't so. Be nice to your attendant!

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

We'll just jot that down as a Pyrrhic victory, shall we? Enjoy your shellacking this November!

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

So they're after Trump for "mishandling" classified documents. How did they handle Hillary doing exactly the same thing? She went on to run for President. Of course, the point of tagging him with one of the thousands of "felonies" on the books is to keep him from doing that. So what is the difference between Hillary and Trump? One is a darling of the "swamp" and the other terrifies it. Not hard to understand, but impossible to condone.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Except Hillary was never POTUS, who SCOTUS has repeatedly reminded us has absolute, unqualified, unrestricted power to declassify materials at any time, following no "process" set forth by lesser bureaucrats, and for whatever reason he or she desires. If Trump took formerly classified information home with him before he left office, it is implicitly declassified. Even if the senile Chinese puppet re-classifies it later, it is still Trump's personal property and he cannot be prosecuted for possessing it.

This is all just another star chamber for flailing Democrats on the verge of extinction.

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gkamburoff's avatar

Speaking of extinction, how's the Russian economy?

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

You live there, why don't you tell us?

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gkamburoff's avatar

Not one example of classified material was found on Hillary's server, or you would post it here.

Just another Big Lie.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

"FBI Director James Comey said more than 2,000 emails contained classified information and some of them “bore markings indicating the presence of classified information.”"

See "Clinton’s Handling of Classified Information" at FactCheck dot org, a leftist propaganda site.

I'm looking forward to the day when you shock me by saying something true...

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

Deny any fact that is "inconvenient". I see that word "lie(s)" applied to anything hat doesn't enhance the delusional narrative of the left a lot these days. How droll...

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

The individual you are responding to is a prolific, probably Russian, two roll on certain other sites. It is a near 100% certainty that anything it posts is factually untrue.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

I don't think we have to posit Russians to account for home-grown evil. That's like Germans blaming Jews in Germany for their defeat in WWI.

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noneya's avatar

James Comey said that there was Classified and Top-Secret information on her email server. You can watch his press conference here --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghph_361

Also, as someone else mentioned FactCheck here is that article https://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/clintons-handling-of-classified-information/

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Correct. The FBI said the number was over 100 documents, each of which was copied by "at least 6 hostile foreign actors."

That's 700 counts of felony Espionage - 18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material. That statute, by the way, makes no allowance for "intent" despite Comey's tragic song and dance trying to explain why they weren't going to prosecute her. That's up to 7,000 years of prison time she evaded.

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gkamburoff's avatar

Hillary did not have secret meetings with Kislyak and Lavrov, giving them secret eyes-only information as they laughed and joked. If the Russians had not taken the pictures, we would not have ever known they were there.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

Oh really? So why wasn't he indicted for that after countless "investigations" undertaken during his term in office?

Was this one of Adam Schiff's countless veiled accusations that were always on the just about to be revealed that always turned out to be smoke and mirrors? Pull the other leg, it's got bells on. :-)

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gkamburoff's avatar

Hang on, indictments are coming, but it takes time to do it right.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Hilarious!

"The walls are closing in!"

"Any day now!"

Seven years of this nonsense. Seven years, 100+ million angry Democrats scouring the globe for any hint of a whiff of an actual crime committed by anyone named "Trump." Seven years of bitter, abject failure.

If Democrats ever "find" an actual crime (besides the many they committed trying to frame Trump), it will be because they fabricated and planted it.

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gkamburoff's avatar

Trump and your Putin are headed for some really tough times ahead.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

LOL! Next you'll be saying that anyone who disagrees with you are Jews and start talking blood-libel.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Quite possibly Trump will need to end the war Xiden seems determined to start.

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gkamburoff's avatar

It ain't just Leticia, it is also Fani Willis, racing her to see who gets Trump first.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

He's really got the left terrified, to be going after him like a lynch mob.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

Nonsense. Our decadent, completely corrupt establishment sees Trump as an existential threat. That's why I voted for him. They're doing everything in their power to destroy him. They're doing the same with Elon Musk. It's disgusting.

Sometime you might want to take a look at Silverglate's "Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent", then reflect on Tacitus' maxim

“The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.” Tacitus concluded that in his analysis of the first century of the emergent Roman Empire.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00505UZ4G

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gkamburoff's avatar

Trump broke the law.

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carolm62's avatar

It’s pretty comical that now it’s those Thin Blue Line flag-waving Trumpublicans who are calling for Defunding the Police.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Which law? Democrats seem to be very vague on that question.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

So have we all, according to Silverglate. The only difference is who actually gets punished. Somehow establishment darlings always get a pass and anyone the establishment hates doesn't.

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noneya's avatar

Careful you may get labeled as a conspiracy theorist.

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gkamburoff's avatar

The loss of support for Rumpy shows us there actually were a few honest Republicans after all.

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Sara Melzer's avatar

Great piece. Lucid, insightful and compelling. Let’s hope this perspective prevails!

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Actually, the GOP hates nothing more than candidates who do what they promised. Trump delivered more promises than any other President in the past century - exactly why people voted for him.

Fortunately, the "establishment" GOP are now mostly retired or evicted or self-eliminated from the party of Freedom.

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noneya's avatar

If they prosecute Trump, shouldn't they have also done so for Hillary? One had physical papers and one had electronic copies of data. If you need a reminder, Hillary also had Secret/Top Secret documentation on her email server (not managed by the government) which you can see detailed by James Comey here --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghph_361

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gkamburoff's avatar

The rattled conservatives now want a civil war, having lost the last one.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

IIRC, the Democrats started the last one.

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Midwesterner's avatar

Another article advocating for the prosecution of Donald Trump that fails to specify exactly which law Trump allegedly broke, and that fails to lay out the factual elements of the alleged crime. With no facts and no law, Mr. Olson is just another columnist pounding on the table.

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D-squared's avatar

What are the charges? What specific law was broken?

When you make a case to prosecute someone, maybe you should lead with that.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Hilarious! All they've done is to martyr Trump with their Gestapo tactics.

This is the swan song of the Democrat party, folks. Totalitarianism is not popular, never will be.

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gkamburoff's avatar

Your days of getting Kislyak and Lavrov into the Oval Office are over.

Trump will be indicted, and Putin is getting his Gym Jordan kicked in Ukraine.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Comrade, you will learn what the Bolsheviks learned.

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carolm62's avatar

There were always going to be a freakout from the hard-core Trumpsters who would support Trump even if he murdered someone on National TV. The thing is, the Law just can’t roll over just because a group of people will be predictably angry that their Dear Leader is expected to obey the law like everyone else. If you want to see totalitarianism, make Presidents above the law and then see what happens.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

" If you want to see totalitarianism"

LMAO! I am afraid that we already have. Surely you haven't forgotten who famously said "I've got a pen and a telephone" when Congress wouldn't do what he wanted.

https://youtu.be/G6tOgF_w-yI

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carolm62's avatar

Totalitarianism, eh…? Oh my.

Perhaps if the people who are attracted to Trumpism didn’t have such poor vocabularies they wouldn’t be so gullible to the theatrics of right-wing media. You have a dictionary right at your fingertips. Use it.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Oh dear, you've attacked our vocabularies. Whatever will we do?

Yes, we have a dictionary. Democrats now fully embrace totalitarianism. Your masks slipped in your anger at Trump, and we can't un-see the ugliness in what would in normal humans be your souls.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

Ah yes, another insult, however poorly framed. It's not a very good way of deflecting comments about the sins of establishment scum.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

Democrats have repeatedly proven that not only CAN the law just "roll over," it WILL so long as a Democrat has committed the crime. The reason you fear Trump so much is that he was going to fix it. He still will, in his second term, and you will be sad.

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carolm62's avatar

Oh, come now. He did nothing to reform any of the Alphabet agencies when he was in office. What he did do was to attack those who wanted him to do so, like Thomas Massie and Justin Amash.

How you True Believers can still believe that he has any interest in anything but himself just slays me. Talk about religious zealotry. Trump has betrayed everyone his life: his serial wives, his children, his porn stars, his business partners, his employees, his customers, a charity, his supporters — even his country. And you *still* believe he’s the Golden Child. Wow.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

"And you *still* believe he’s the Golden Child."

Nope, I don't. Isn't it odd how his character, which is indeed flawed, gets pilloried by his opponents while the establishment creatures who you support are as bad or worse by all accounts. Surely you are not suggesting that the Biden, Obama or Clinton families are any exemplar of probity...

Remember...

https://jimdaly.focusonthefamily.com/before-you-say-you-39-re-not-qualified/

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

All Democrats have fully embraced the ideology of bullies / abusers / totalitarians. It doesn't matter what name they give their affliction - that is simply window dressing for their depravities. The world has become politically black and white. Republicans are imperfect supporters of Classical Liberalism (the primacy of individual rights; small government focused almost exclusively on protecting those rights; low taxes; the objective rule of law applied equally and dispassionately to everyone) - in other words, Liberty.

Democrats have fully embraced totalitarianism (rights, if any, are bestowed by government; huge government invasive in all aspects of living; crushing taxes; the subjective rule of man / whimsy / mob rule).

There can be no compromise now, for any compromise with evil is still evil.

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Forrest Higgs's avatar

"Republicans are imperfect supporters of Classical Liberalism (the primacy of individual rights; small government focused almost exclusively on protecting those rights; low taxes; the objective rule of law applied equally and dispassionately to everyone) - in other words, Liberty."

Establishment Republicans, of the sort we were saddled with before the Tea Party and Trump certainly paid lip service to all you describe, but in practice wanted to do the same things as Democrats albeit at a slower place so as not to enrage the unwashed masses, aka, you and I.

What is left of the Establishment GOP is seen in the vehemence with which their talking heads, Jonah Goldberg, Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney come to mind among others, have become the ridiculous "Never-Trump" clowns, aka, RINOs.

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Johnathan Galt's avatar

First you whiners claim he never accomplished anything, then you claim he accomplished bad things, then you complain because he did not accomplish everything. You really need to make up your minds whether he was a dictator, powerless, etc. - it just makes your talking points sound foolish.

If you were literate, you would know I never thought Trump ever had anything but his own self interest in mind. In fact, both times I voted for him I was COUNTING on him following that big ego of his to put your criminals in your places. Had you not arranged for the release of the bio weapon Covid you Democrats illegally funded for years as cover for cheating in the election, he would still be our legitimate President; gas would still be $2.50 per gallon, Russia would not have invaded Ukraine, and inflation would still be 2%.

It's all good. Your utterly incompetent coup is revealed, your botching of global affairs and the economy has finally awakened the electorate, and you will face a shellacking this year and in 2024. Trump will fix in his second term what you've worked so hard to break, you will be sad, and America will be Great.

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