Thank you for this response. I read the Ferguson piece in TFP when it came out, and was stunned by its silliness, particularly given how brilliant of a historian Ferguson can be. This is the best, point-by-point response I have read yet. I am still hopeful that Anne Applebaum is preparing her response.
That Ferguson, a transplanted UK citizen, and his wife Hirsi Ali, a transplanted Somalian by way of Kenya and the Netherlands, are spouting this nonsense is particularly troublesome, not only because they are quite intelligent but also because each of them has benefited so much by becoming citizens of the U.S. they decry.
Although it would be a sad statement about them, I can only hope that the allure of wealth is what is driving these two to write these recent articles, and not that they actually believe thus stuff.
Niall Ferguson and Ayaan Hirsi Ali no longer have any objectivity. They put a veneer of respectability but no better than any MAGA influencer yelling silly slogan such as “Go Woke Go Broke”. To say I am disappointed is an understatement.
It is pretty clear that when white people use the word "woke" they are displaying ignorance of what it means and have devalued it to mean anything "I've heard of, never studied but I know I don't like." It is as meaningless as so-called conservatives using "Socialist, Marxist, and Communist" with reference to American Democrats. It might rattle the cages of the ignorant mobs but no supposed educated person should ever employ it in any sort of supposedly intelligent discussion.
Back to "woke" which I grew weary of being overused by social justice jihadists but I am absolutely aghast at being used in any context beyond that which it originally meant.
The term was originally coined by Black Americans and used in racial justice contexts in the early to mid-1900s. To be "woke" politically in the Black community meant that someone was informed, educated and conscious of social injustice and racial inequality. Let us say it would not take a rocket scientist to know that social injustice and racial inequality was and is an actual problem.
So please, white people, stop using the word beyond its meaning--- or better yet just stop using it period.
To be "woke" meant to be aware and AWAKE to the threats to Black people, especially Black men and boys in segregated America. This is the America that millions of living men and women lived in and through. To be aware and AWAKE is the first line of defense and survival in a racist society.
The following quote especially caught my eye: "Books like Anne Applebaum’s Red Famine: Stalin’s War on Ukraine and Timothy Snyder’s Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin are terrifying compendiums of the almost-incomprehensible cruelty and callousness of the Soviet system, which killed far more people in peacetime than Nazism "
In the 1930s, Stalin killed (murdered) more than nine million Ukrainians through starvation. The Nazis killed millions through their determination to realize world domination. Stalin assassinated TWENTY million+ of his own; one million of which were the top intellectuals and Military in Russia. I wonder how Ferguson reconciles with those figures? Perhaps in his pedantic and pathetic zeal he would like to see the same things take place in the U.S.?
The irony here of the 10s of millions that the Soviet communists murdered and killed, is that they got there on a similar road that the far Left is currently on. While people like to paint the Right as extremists, fascists, authoritarians, etc the reality is that nothing could be further from the truth. Liberalism is inherently authoritarian and communist by it's nature. The "far right" are really just the centrists of the past and are the knee jerk reaction to the Left moving so far left that they're unrecognizable as "Liberals" anymore. There's nothing "liberal" about what the far left have been pushing over the past decade which include the capture of most mainstream media, identity politics, division between classes, Government corruption and brazen lies. The Democrats turning on Biden after the debate is such a comical, staged act it's hard to believe people are actually falling for it when EVERYONE objective and sane saw that he was incapable 3 years ago. It's an act worthy of the former Soviet Union. The question is, who has actually been running the country when it's obvious that Biden hasn't? This is a coup of biblical proportions and the white elephant in the room that nobody will address reasonably. Maybe a "Liberal" publication could address that???
So then, you are suggesting that Projecct 2025, The Heritage Foundation and the autocratic/authoritarian road is the road to take. By the way, I am neither for anything in any one direction. I choose not to function from a myopic monolith.
I'm not sure what Project 2025 has to do with this discussion. Regarding which road to move forward on, that's a big discussion, but the correct answer is obviously not the road we're on. I genuinely liked Bret Weinstein's "Unity 2020" idea, where one Democrat and one GOP candidate ran on the same ticket, and they switched VP/President roles mid way through the term. The real problem here is polarization with no problem solving between the two sides. Much like the brain without both left and right sides is dysfunctional, politics is much the same. It's my belief that the Left is generally more creative and less organized by disposition, making implementation more difficult whereas with the Right it's the opposite, and while implementation is well structured, creating solutions is the problem. It seems to hold true. As Tristan Harris, former Google design ethicist once stated, if you create so much disagreement in a society that you can't agree on anything, society regresses and can no longer move forward. That's where we're at. We're not solving problems anymore. There are MANY experts outside of the far right, including philosophers, political and economics scientists that all agree that the US is a superpower in decline. It's not just Ferguson.
Clearly, the US is a superpower in decline. Niall Ferguson doesn’t exaggerate that any more than this site’s critics of ‘he who shall not be named’ exaggerate his threat to democracy. Agree that we need to UnPolarize and work together critically and creatively in addressing this nation’s problems…perhaps a name change for this blog is in order to begin to move us in this direction.
That is all laughable nonsense. The extreme Woke left is despicable in its own right, but at least they did not reject our constitution and violently try to overturn a free election. There is no Republican in the house, and few in the Senate, who could be called a "centrist." of yesterday. That is to say, a Rockefeller Republican. I believe this is mostly the result of the right's gullible submission to pernicious evangelical frauds (let's face it, Trump fits right in there.)
The Woke Left are guilty of violating the 1st Amendment and censoring the Free Speech of Americans. They pressured social media to suppress truthful information and push false information during the pandemic. This is documented in the courts and not just partisan rumor or spin.
Additionally, they suppressed the Hunter Biden laptop story, lying about it's veracity to affect the outcome of the 2020 election.
Can someone explain to me who is actually running the country when Biden has been senile for 4 years and it was only recently, publicly admitted when they could no longer hide it?
Tell me again how the Left is not a threat to democracy and the constitution???
Regarding the first amendment: I am not aware of the Biden administration censoring any private citizen or the press. Trump calls the press the enemy of the people. Hunter Biden is getting his day in court and it is now clear to everyone that Joe Biden was not involved. Yes, COVID was not fully understood by the medical community, but much of what turned out to be misinformation was peddled under Trump, who in February, 2020, said "It would just go away, like a miracle."
Trump doesn't call the press the enemy of the people. He calls the BIASED press, press that doesn't report factual information but rather spins the news to favor the Left, the enemy of the people. If you want examples of this, I'm happy to provide it.
The Hunter Biden laptop story was absolutely suppressed and it absolutely affected the outcome of the 2020 election. Remember, the DNC was in charge of the House at the time and it was their mission to make sure a Democrat was elected to the presidency.
Covid was well understood by mid 2020. We knew that only people who had co-morbidities were high risk, we knew that healthy and young people were NOT at high risk, and yet the Left pushed to close the country, close schools and inoculate healthy people with an experimental shot who did not need to be inoculated.
We also knew that anyone with previous exposure had lasting, powerful natural immunity and yet this information was suppressed and people were forced to get jabbed even though they didn't need it.
These were all illogical (and illegal) things the Left pushed for. They are actually crimes against humanity.
Finally, the fact that you don't know about Biden censoring social media is a testimony to how biased the news you read is. 40 years ago the entire world would have known about it and been talking about it.
Stop getting all your opinions from the propaganda media and start thinking logically for yourself.
Hoo Boy. Not enough time or motivation to respond to everything. Just two. It was widely reported, not suppressed that David Weiss was investigating him. He never found any association with Joe Biden. You are mostly wrong about COVID; we knew very little for certain in 2020. Although many did know for certain that it could be cured with bleach.
Thanks for this rebuttal. I read Ferguson’s original and thought something was off in the comparison, but wouldn’t have been able to articulate it so well. The thought that an intellectual of Ferguson’s caliber would offer his support to a demagogue like Trump is repulsive.
Someone who thinks that the Kaiser should have been allowed to win WWI and rule Europe is not likely to be bothered by the notion of Trump ruling the US.
Following my democratic instincts here in UK I did NOT follow Fs progress going back over 30 years....not only a bad historian but arrogant. I put him in the category of self publicists eg the British Russell Brand and someone called Donald Trump
Interesting, well written and an informative read. Disagree with your closing sentence though, only in that you apparently give Ferguson credit for being an "intellectual", unless I'm reading that wrong.
Please. His new digs with Bari Weiss indicate his status as a self-serving wordsmith and little else. He perhaps knows and can regurgitate a lot of information and facts but lacks the intellect to put the puzzle pieces together to come up with a correct and accurate picture instead of just the one that will garner a payday. And an America on the brink of complete failure will always pay a guy like Ferguson better and more reliably than the one we actually have.
One general problem is that both Ferguson and Hirsi Ali are into civilisationism and by dividing humans into non-existing civilisations, instead of promoting that humanity should be a global community, they are creating fear and tribalist mindset about "us vs them" that at the ned of the day is not increasing support for freedom, openess and decentralisation but actually increasing support for the opposite values and behaviours, including right-wing populist and collectivist economic behaviours that are more similar to the Soviet Union . This is because collectivist and authoritarian values are bad for private alternatives, more deregulated and freer markets and global economic flows
Response to RD. That is all laughable nonsense. The extreme Woke left is despicable in its own right, but at least they did not reject our constitution and violently try to overturn a free election. There is no Republican in the house, and few in the Senate, who in any way could be called a "centrist." of yesterday. That is to say, a Rockefeller Republican. I believe this is mostly the result of the right's gullible submission to pernicious evangelical frauds (let's face it, that is Trump's schtick.)
It seems like free press is fully leaning into the FU brand of politics embraced by much of the Maga sphere, with just the thinnest facade of intellectual rigor. It is not surprising as this has always been their trajectory, but it appears to be more and more noticeable with this election cycle. I was struck by Taibbi recently straightforwardly stating in a note that his politics are just fuck the democrats and we will just see who feel like voting when it comes to it. This was obvious, but it was just a little surprisingly to here a heterodox voice openly state how shallow their thinking/motivations have become on such matters. I think free presses thin facade of objectivity is going to break down rapidly this election cycle. I think we will hear more of these voices openly embrace Trump, especially with Biden's decline and the recent assassination attempt.
Ah, but the Chinese have a few important things we and the greater West lack - a strong sense of national cohesion and purpose, a need to vindicate their relatively weak international history as compared to the West, and a hard-nosed view of what is necessary to achieve their goals, which are to dominate global commerce and culture.
Meanwhile, we in the West are self immolating over
Thank you for this response. I read the Ferguson piece in TFP when it came out, and was stunned by its silliness, particularly given how brilliant of a historian Ferguson can be. This is the best, point-by-point response I have read yet. I am still hopeful that Anne Applebaum is preparing her response.
That Ferguson, a transplanted UK citizen, and his wife Hirsi Ali, a transplanted Somalian by way of Kenya and the Netherlands, are spouting this nonsense is particularly troublesome, not only because they are quite intelligent but also because each of them has benefited so much by becoming citizens of the U.S. they decry.
Although it would be a sad statement about them, I can only hope that the allure of wealth is what is driving these two to write these recent articles, and not that they actually believe thus stuff.
Niall Ferguson and Ayaan Hirsi Ali no longer have any objectivity. They put a veneer of respectability but no better than any MAGA influencer yelling silly slogan such as “Go Woke Go Broke”. To say I am disappointed is an understatement.
It is pretty clear that when white people use the word "woke" they are displaying ignorance of what it means and have devalued it to mean anything "I've heard of, never studied but I know I don't like." It is as meaningless as so-called conservatives using "Socialist, Marxist, and Communist" with reference to American Democrats. It might rattle the cages of the ignorant mobs but no supposed educated person should ever employ it in any sort of supposedly intelligent discussion.
Back to "woke" which I grew weary of being overused by social justice jihadists but I am absolutely aghast at being used in any context beyond that which it originally meant.
The term was originally coined by Black Americans and used in racial justice contexts in the early to mid-1900s. To be "woke" politically in the Black community meant that someone was informed, educated and conscious of social injustice and racial inequality. Let us say it would not take a rocket scientist to know that social injustice and racial inequality was and is an actual problem.
So please, white people, stop using the word beyond its meaning--- or better yet just stop using it period.
To be "woke" meant to be aware and AWAKE to the threats to Black people, especially Black men and boys in segregated America. This is the America that millions of living men and women lived in and through. To be aware and AWAKE is the first line of defense and survival in a racist society.
The following quote especially caught my eye: "Books like Anne Applebaum’s Red Famine: Stalin’s War on Ukraine and Timothy Snyder’s Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin are terrifying compendiums of the almost-incomprehensible cruelty and callousness of the Soviet system, which killed far more people in peacetime than Nazism "
In the 1930s, Stalin killed (murdered) more than nine million Ukrainians through starvation. The Nazis killed millions through their determination to realize world domination. Stalin assassinated TWENTY million+ of his own; one million of which were the top intellectuals and Military in Russia. I wonder how Ferguson reconciles with those figures? Perhaps in his pedantic and pathetic zeal he would like to see the same things take place in the U.S.?
The irony here of the 10s of millions that the Soviet communists murdered and killed, is that they got there on a similar road that the far Left is currently on. While people like to paint the Right as extremists, fascists, authoritarians, etc the reality is that nothing could be further from the truth. Liberalism is inherently authoritarian and communist by it's nature. The "far right" are really just the centrists of the past and are the knee jerk reaction to the Left moving so far left that they're unrecognizable as "Liberals" anymore. There's nothing "liberal" about what the far left have been pushing over the past decade which include the capture of most mainstream media, identity politics, division between classes, Government corruption and brazen lies. The Democrats turning on Biden after the debate is such a comical, staged act it's hard to believe people are actually falling for it when EVERYONE objective and sane saw that he was incapable 3 years ago. It's an act worthy of the former Soviet Union. The question is, who has actually been running the country when it's obvious that Biden hasn't? This is a coup of biblical proportions and the white elephant in the room that nobody will address reasonably. Maybe a "Liberal" publication could address that???
So then, you are suggesting that Projecct 2025, The Heritage Foundation and the autocratic/authoritarian road is the road to take. By the way, I am neither for anything in any one direction. I choose not to function from a myopic monolith.
I'm not sure what Project 2025 has to do with this discussion. Regarding which road to move forward on, that's a big discussion, but the correct answer is obviously not the road we're on. I genuinely liked Bret Weinstein's "Unity 2020" idea, where one Democrat and one GOP candidate ran on the same ticket, and they switched VP/President roles mid way through the term. The real problem here is polarization with no problem solving between the two sides. Much like the brain without both left and right sides is dysfunctional, politics is much the same. It's my belief that the Left is generally more creative and less organized by disposition, making implementation more difficult whereas with the Right it's the opposite, and while implementation is well structured, creating solutions is the problem. It seems to hold true. As Tristan Harris, former Google design ethicist once stated, if you create so much disagreement in a society that you can't agree on anything, society regresses and can no longer move forward. That's where we're at. We're not solving problems anymore. There are MANY experts outside of the far right, including philosophers, political and economics scientists that all agree that the US is a superpower in decline. It's not just Ferguson.
Clearly, the US is a superpower in decline. Niall Ferguson doesn’t exaggerate that any more than this site’s critics of ‘he who shall not be named’ exaggerate his threat to democracy. Agree that we need to UnPolarize and work together critically and creatively in addressing this nation’s problems…perhaps a name change for this blog is in order to begin to move us in this direction.
Thank you. I like the "right brain/left brain" analogy.
That is all laughable nonsense. The extreme Woke left is despicable in its own right, but at least they did not reject our constitution and violently try to overturn a free election. There is no Republican in the house, and few in the Senate, who could be called a "centrist." of yesterday. That is to say, a Rockefeller Republican. I believe this is mostly the result of the right's gullible submission to pernicious evangelical frauds (let's face it, Trump fits right in there.)
The Woke Left are guilty of violating the 1st Amendment and censoring the Free Speech of Americans. They pressured social media to suppress truthful information and push false information during the pandemic. This is documented in the courts and not just partisan rumor or spin.
Additionally, they suppressed the Hunter Biden laptop story, lying about it's veracity to affect the outcome of the 2020 election.
Can someone explain to me who is actually running the country when Biden has been senile for 4 years and it was only recently, publicly admitted when they could no longer hide it?
Tell me again how the Left is not a threat to democracy and the constitution???
Laughable indeed.
Regarding the first amendment: I am not aware of the Biden administration censoring any private citizen or the press. Trump calls the press the enemy of the people. Hunter Biden is getting his day in court and it is now clear to everyone that Joe Biden was not involved. Yes, COVID was not fully understood by the medical community, but much of what turned out to be misinformation was peddled under Trump, who in February, 2020, said "It would just go away, like a miracle."
You have to get your facts straight.
Trump doesn't call the press the enemy of the people. He calls the BIASED press, press that doesn't report factual information but rather spins the news to favor the Left, the enemy of the people. If you want examples of this, I'm happy to provide it.
The Hunter Biden laptop story was absolutely suppressed and it absolutely affected the outcome of the 2020 election. Remember, the DNC was in charge of the House at the time and it was their mission to make sure a Democrat was elected to the presidency.
Covid was well understood by mid 2020. We knew that only people who had co-morbidities were high risk, we knew that healthy and young people were NOT at high risk, and yet the Left pushed to close the country, close schools and inoculate healthy people with an experimental shot who did not need to be inoculated.
We also knew that anyone with previous exposure had lasting, powerful natural immunity and yet this information was suppressed and people were forced to get jabbed even though they didn't need it.
These were all illogical (and illegal) things the Left pushed for. They are actually crimes against humanity.
Finally, the fact that you don't know about Biden censoring social media is a testimony to how biased the news you read is. 40 years ago the entire world would have known about it and been talking about it.
Stop getting all your opinions from the propaganda media and start thinking logically for yourself.
https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/biden-administrations-policing-of-online-content-likely-violated-free-speech-rights-court-rules-302cd37d
Hoo Boy. Not enough time or motivation to respond to everything. Just two. It was widely reported, not suppressed that David Weiss was investigating him. He never found any association with Joe Biden. You are mostly wrong about COVID; we knew very little for certain in 2020. Although many did know for certain that it could be cured with bleach.
Thanks for this rebuttal. I read Ferguson’s original and thought something was off in the comparison, but wouldn’t have been able to articulate it so well. The thought that an intellectual of Ferguson’s caliber would offer his support to a demagogue like Trump is repulsive.
Someone who thinks that the Kaiser should have been allowed to win WWI and rule Europe is not likely to be bothered by the notion of Trump ruling the US.
Following my democratic instincts here in UK I did NOT follow Fs progress going back over 30 years....not only a bad historian but arrogant. I put him in the category of self publicists eg the British Russell Brand and someone called Donald Trump
Interesting, well written and an informative read. Disagree with your closing sentence though, only in that you apparently give Ferguson credit for being an "intellectual", unless I'm reading that wrong.
Please. His new digs with Bari Weiss indicate his status as a self-serving wordsmith and little else. He perhaps knows and can regurgitate a lot of information and facts but lacks the intellect to put the puzzle pieces together to come up with a correct and accurate picture instead of just the one that will garner a payday. And an America on the brink of complete failure will always pay a guy like Ferguson better and more reliably than the one we actually have.
M-Nice to see you here as well as on Slack Tide. CapeJ
Hello CapeJ. Have been reading The UnPopulist for some time. Just don't run my mouth as much here as at the Tide. :-)
😀
Brilliant article. Exceptional synthesis.
One general problem is that both Ferguson and Hirsi Ali are into civilisationism and by dividing humans into non-existing civilisations, instead of promoting that humanity should be a global community, they are creating fear and tribalist mindset about "us vs them" that at the ned of the day is not increasing support for freedom, openess and decentralisation but actually increasing support for the opposite values and behaviours, including right-wing populist and collectivist economic behaviours that are more similar to the Soviet Union . This is because collectivist and authoritarian values are bad for private alternatives, more deregulated and freer markets and global economic flows
Response to RD. That is all laughable nonsense. The extreme Woke left is despicable in its own right, but at least they did not reject our constitution and violently try to overturn a free election. There is no Republican in the house, and few in the Senate, who in any way could be called a "centrist." of yesterday. That is to say, a Rockefeller Republican. I believe this is mostly the result of the right's gullible submission to pernicious evangelical frauds (let's face it, that is Trump's schtick.)
I think Ferguson was mostly comparing the US to the late USSR under Brezhnev, not to Stalinism.
It seems like free press is fully leaning into the FU brand of politics embraced by much of the Maga sphere, with just the thinnest facade of intellectual rigor. It is not surprising as this has always been their trajectory, but it appears to be more and more noticeable with this election cycle. I was struck by Taibbi recently straightforwardly stating in a note that his politics are just fuck the democrats and we will just see who feel like voting when it comes to it. This was obvious, but it was just a little surprisingly to here a heterodox voice openly state how shallow their thinking/motivations have become on such matters. I think free presses thin facade of objectivity is going to break down rapidly this election cycle. I think we will hear more of these voices openly embrace Trump, especially with Biden's decline and the recent assassination attempt.
TFP journalism is wild AF! Very schizo
Ah, but the Chinese have a few important things we and the greater West lack - a strong sense of national cohesion and purpose, a need to vindicate their relatively weak international history as compared to the West, and a hard-nosed view of what is necessary to achieve their goals, which are to dominate global commerce and culture.
Meanwhile, we in the West are self immolating over
Have you read anything from Dmitri Alperovitch? I think he makes some good points on this topic without sliding into the woke rabbit hole.