I completely agree that giving extra votes to parents is undemocratic. But let's put that to the side. How do you allow parents — two people, with potentially different political leanings—an extra vote. Would each parent get an extra vote? Would they have to designate a votee? Would that right be revoked upon a child's untimely death? What about single moms? How would all these extra votes affect voter fraud, an issue that Republicans are super concerned about obstensibly?
The usual answer they say is married couples would split the extra votes, so e.g. with three kids each parent would get an extra one and a half plus their own for two and a half votes each. Which also requires getting into fractional votes and all the complications that entails.
One thing I didn't even get into here is the government doesn't actually have any solid database for who has minor children. Closest you get is tax dependents, but that's not comprehensive and not limited to under-18, and integrating that with the voter rolls would be insanely complicated just as a practical administrative matter.
It wouldn't be that hard. You set a standard for proof people to reach in order to get extra votes. If they don't take the initiative to reach that standard, they don't get extra votes.
The people in Vance’s party are already over represented. A vote in WY counts far more in the EC, and even more in the Senate, than a vote in CA (or my state, WA) does. Thanks to that over representation the wishes of the majority are routinely disregarded in favor of white rural/exurban minorities. This has had a significant negative impact on how Americans view their government.
Vance’s ideas are inherently undemocratic. It seems to be aligned with his financial backers, Peter Thiel. We are already in a perilous situation when he is one of 100. To think that he can be a heart beat away from the Oval and with a near octogenarian president, an utter disaster.
Here's the difference: it's an absolute lie that the American left wants a childless society, but many on the Protestant Christian far right value women principally as baby factories and child rearers who are subservient to their father, brother, husband and pastor. Some believers even have many children for the express purpose of creating an army that will take back the nation for their god.
As for their children, they're born into theocratic congregations that exercise cult-like levels of control over the minds, words and deeds of the young starting with breaking their will during infancy and childhood. If it were not for the anti-constitutional deference by most of our institutions and their leaders toward organized religion, law enforcement and public sentiment would would view many of the methods Baptists and others of that ilk use to rear their young as a form of child abuse. The church institution that socializes minors into the ways of the culture is the youth group and the person who carries out the indoctrination is the youth pastor. Girls, adolescent females and young women bear the brunt of the repressive teachings about sex. The religion views females as born temptresses who are a constant threat to the moral standing of males, their so-called brothers in Christ. On the other hand, pastors teach that boys and men cannot help being driven by constant lust as it is their nature. It is the females who must be on their guard constantly lest they say or do something that stirs the loins of the men around them.
This is the constituency Trump and Vance have snowed with their lies about America and families.
"One adult person, one vote is not an arbitrary standard—it is a manifestation of legal equality, the core principle from which everything else flows."
Preach! Now let's talk about the Senate and the Electoral College...
Every group except single women vote GOP, and single women vote overwhelmingly DEM.
This is a basic fact. The DEMS are the childless cat lady party, they carry them on their back.
When Vance made these comments back in 2021, it was the childless cat ladies that most supported COVID lockdowns, school closures, and masking toddlers. Parents wanted life back to normal.
The childless, who are far left, oppose school choice despite not even having kids. They vote in school board elections to push their cultural agenda.
The Child Tax Credit is $2k. SS is $22k, Medicare is $16k, and Medicaid is $15k per elderly recipient (most Long Term Care bills are paid by Medicaid). Yeah, that's a youth oriented society right there.
You think that wouldn't change if you dramatically change the voting power of parents?
The bottom line with the childless is they are free riders. They don't take on the expense of raising children (no, school taxes aren't close to enough and that money goes to the education industry not parents). Then they want other peoples kids to pay for their retirement. You suggest correcting this because its necessary and fair and they throw a hissy fit.
Totally correct. Besides the fact that we live in a gerontocracy, the « help » that the government gives through regulations and services is often poisonous. I am mainly thinking of daycare that is super costly and seems to make kids have worse life outcomes and emotional well-being than kids that did not go through daycare. And because we live in a harm reduction bitch and safety Uber alles culture, the government forbids you from having a cheap neighborhood daycare business with a stay-at-home mom because ???
Why should a 17-year-old honor student not be allowed to vote, while an 80-IQ convicted felon is allowed to vote? Section 2 of the 14th Amendment explicitly allows felons to be disenfranchised for life. Felons are worse voters -- they are more likely to vote for nationalist and socialist demagogues in primary elections, and more likely to vote for anti-freedom ballot initiatives. Attorney Roger Clegg points out in the New York Times that "we have certain minimum standards of responsibility and commitment to our laws before entrusting someone with a role in the solemn enterprise of self-government. People who commit serious crimes against their fellow citizens do not qualify....if you won’t follow the law yourself, then you can’t make the law for everyone else, which is what you do – directly or indirectly – when you vote." Mentally incompetent people often are not allowed to vote under state law, because of their bad judgment. Felons have worse judgment. Taking away the right to vote for committing felonies is akin to taking away a child's privileges for misbehaving.
I completely agree that giving extra votes to parents is undemocratic. But let's put that to the side. How do you allow parents — two people, with potentially different political leanings—an extra vote. Would each parent get an extra vote? Would they have to designate a votee? Would that right be revoked upon a child's untimely death? What about single moms? How would all these extra votes affect voter fraud, an issue that Republicans are super concerned about obstensibly?
It's a totally unserious idea.
The usual answer they say is married couples would split the extra votes, so e.g. with three kids each parent would get an extra one and a half plus their own for two and a half votes each. Which also requires getting into fractional votes and all the complications that entails.
One thing I didn't even get into here is the government doesn't actually have any solid database for who has minor children. Closest you get is tax dependents, but that's not comprehensive and not limited to under-18, and integrating that with the voter rolls would be insanely complicated just as a practical administrative matter.
It wouldn't be that hard. You set a standard for proof people to reach in order to get extra votes. If they don't take the initiative to reach that standard, they don't get extra votes.
That is an excellent point!
The people in Vance’s party are already over represented. A vote in WY counts far more in the EC, and even more in the Senate, than a vote in CA (or my state, WA) does. Thanks to that over representation the wishes of the majority are routinely disregarded in favor of white rural/exurban minorities. This has had a significant negative impact on how Americans view their government.
Vance’s ideas are inherently undemocratic. It seems to be aligned with his financial backers, Peter Thiel. We are already in a perilous situation when he is one of 100. To think that he can be a heart beat away from the Oval and with a near octogenarian president, an utter disaster.
Here's the difference: it's an absolute lie that the American left wants a childless society, but many on the Protestant Christian far right value women principally as baby factories and child rearers who are subservient to their father, brother, husband and pastor. Some believers even have many children for the express purpose of creating an army that will take back the nation for their god.
As for their children, they're born into theocratic congregations that exercise cult-like levels of control over the minds, words and deeds of the young starting with breaking their will during infancy and childhood. If it were not for the anti-constitutional deference by most of our institutions and their leaders toward organized religion, law enforcement and public sentiment would would view many of the methods Baptists and others of that ilk use to rear their young as a form of child abuse. The church institution that socializes minors into the ways of the culture is the youth group and the person who carries out the indoctrination is the youth pastor. Girls, adolescent females and young women bear the brunt of the repressive teachings about sex. The religion views females as born temptresses who are a constant threat to the moral standing of males, their so-called brothers in Christ. On the other hand, pastors teach that boys and men cannot help being driven by constant lust as it is their nature. It is the females who must be on their guard constantly lest they say or do something that stirs the loins of the men around them.
This is the constituency Trump and Vance have snowed with their lies about America and families.
"One adult person, one vote is not an arbitrary standard—it is a manifestation of legal equality, the core principle from which everything else flows."
Preach! Now let's talk about the Senate and the Electoral College...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSMB5WvlDhN7GYIlHzt6_N7iBfpJ-kH2JSkQ&s
Every group except single women vote GOP, and single women vote overwhelmingly DEM.
This is a basic fact. The DEMS are the childless cat lady party, they carry them on their back.
When Vance made these comments back in 2021, it was the childless cat ladies that most supported COVID lockdowns, school closures, and masking toddlers. Parents wanted life back to normal.
The childless, who are far left, oppose school choice despite not even having kids. They vote in school board elections to push their cultural agenda.
The Child Tax Credit is $2k. SS is $22k, Medicare is $16k, and Medicaid is $15k per elderly recipient (most Long Term Care bills are paid by Medicaid). Yeah, that's a youth oriented society right there.
You think that wouldn't change if you dramatically change the voting power of parents?
The bottom line with the childless is they are free riders. They don't take on the expense of raising children (no, school taxes aren't close to enough and that money goes to the education industry not parents). Then they want other peoples kids to pay for their retirement. You suggest correcting this because its necessary and fair and they throw a hissy fit.
Totally correct. Besides the fact that we live in a gerontocracy, the « help » that the government gives through regulations and services is often poisonous. I am mainly thinking of daycare that is super costly and seems to make kids have worse life outcomes and emotional well-being than kids that did not go through daycare. And because we live in a harm reduction bitch and safety Uber alles culture, the government forbids you from having a cheap neighborhood daycare business with a stay-at-home mom because ???
Why should a 17-year-old honor student not be allowed to vote, while an 80-IQ convicted felon is allowed to vote? Section 2 of the 14th Amendment explicitly allows felons to be disenfranchised for life. Felons are worse voters -- they are more likely to vote for nationalist and socialist demagogues in primary elections, and more likely to vote for anti-freedom ballot initiatives. Attorney Roger Clegg points out in the New York Times that "we have certain minimum standards of responsibility and commitment to our laws before entrusting someone with a role in the solemn enterprise of self-government. People who commit serious crimes against their fellow citizens do not qualify....if you won’t follow the law yourself, then you can’t make the law for everyone else, which is what you do – directly or indirectly – when you vote." Mentally incompetent people often are not allowed to vote under state law, because of their bad judgment. Felons have worse judgment. Taking away the right to vote for committing felonies is akin to taking away a child's privileges for misbehaving.
I would support extra votes for college degree holders, tbh, but for the worry for "degree farms".
Why? Because they don’t.