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Sara Melzer's avatar

Fascinating conversation. It Amazes me how long it takes us to realize history is not linear!

And yes, all the pendulum swings give us a huge cultural whip-lash! Anyway, this is a very thought-provoking dialogue. Thank you for it.

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Mitchell in Oakland's avatar

As Shikha Dalmia notes, "Liberal democracy never set itself out to solve the spiritual problems of humanity." Shikha has it right -- as far as she goes.

That's not necessarily a problem. It becomes a problem when liberalism attempts to address spiritual issues -- when managerial rationalism goes hubristic and presumes to enter the spiritual realm -- when spiritual issues are cast as matters of "mental health" to be addressed by corporate "solutions" -- or ultimately by the Therapeutic State.

Care doesn't scale! Empathy is an individual attribute, operating among other individuals -- including those freely associating (seeking personal bonds, or even "a sense of belonging") -- in a pluralistic political context, as addressed (however tentatively) by Isaiah Berlin.

"There is no political solution. There is no bloody revolution. We are spirits in the material world."

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Ormond's avatar
2dEdited

One must consider that Telos is an unproven postulate.

Well, I read the whole thing, and it's sloppy. The editing is very bad, with strange usages of compound phrases, with, I hope, key words missing.

I find it to be a very Western analysis, with the Global South and our many wars essentially ignored. There's no mention of AI's threats, climate change, techbros' blindness to the imbalance of their goals.

"Green" cars are still resource hogs, hailed as the new penis enhancers. Rockets, bombs, burning cities and forests, freighters and airliners pollute our skies. Tariffs are wrecking the global supply change. Gaza, Ukraine, many more killing fields.

They got one thing right: technology has addicted us to titillation, so our intellects wander on the internet, although the algorithms always are there to keep the ad-driven consumerism going.

So it's capitalism, Jake...the greedy rich skimming the labor surplus.

Solution: postwar morality: high taxes going to social and physical infrastructure. Severely limit legislative capture with serious bribery laws. Tax churches. Enforce church-state separation.

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Mitchell in Oakland's avatar

I fully agree regarding "the greedy rich skimming the labor surplus"!

However, as for the value judgment implicit in characterizing "'Green' cars [as] resource hogs, hailed as the new penis enhancers," I vehemently disagree -- "resource hogs" or not!

I might be gay, but I ain't gonna cut off my penis on behalf of your own "Greenie" (degrowth) religion. If you tax the churches, tax all the nonprofits that promote the sort of "woke" (de facto) theology (with its accompanying value system) spewed by NPR. ("Would you like some self-righteous, smug-sounding vocal fry with that?")

When someone starts by saying, "We need...," my response is, "Speak for yourself." The only people who consider themselves "masses" are apparatchiks who claim to speak on their behalf.

FWIW, I get my viewpoint from the KKK: Kerouac, Kesey, and Kafka. There's lots more like me. Most of us are not Trumpsters (let alone, oligarchs), and we're not going quietly into your good night.

A(n electric) car in every garage! THAT's abundance!

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